Thanks for your response,

Your solution is valid, but I have two problems with it, 1. Where does laravel itself say that we should always do that? There are a lot of examples on the laravel documentation that does this with no hesitation, and you have to make your team agree on something that is not just laravel 2. The way you handle the data in the views or Presentors is just an example and not the only point here, another example would be writing repositories, you basically shouldn't use the default laravel models as you won't achieve the starting goal of the repositories, the solution would be using something like DTOs and you end up with multiple classes for the same data model when you can just have one data model to do all of those things, Although in some cases you might need DTOs, but it's really nice to have the option to keep your app simple and SOLID.

I agree that you totally can have awful apps using symfony, I didn't say that your app magically gets wonderful just by using symfony.

I also agree that Eloquent is simple but when the project grows that might turn into a huge problem as we're not following SOLID by default, but that might never happen which in that case laravel might've been a really good choice, I've also seen people that hate the eloquent religiously.